Once this is done, continue the installation by following the directions for the particular Kerdi product being used. What I would be most scared off is the fact that no inside or outside corners appear to have been used. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. Portland cement-based unmodified thin-set mortars are dependent on the presence of moisture for hydration in order to gain strength. A quality underlayment will also serve as a waterproof barrier between the subfloor and the tile surface. We sponge water onto the cement board. The site is called floorelf.com. How do you show the depth of a hole in a drawing? Cement board and grout are not water proof, if there's Kerdi no moisture is ever going to be able to get behind it. Thanks to Mongo's earlier post, we knew we'd have to spritz the Hardi -- but found that even that wasn't quite enough. 120 sq feet including the floor. document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()); Your email address will not be published. Allow the adhesive to cure for the amount of time recommended by the adhesives manufacturer. When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. Any recommendations? I would fear leaks in all corners of this shower. Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? A lot of folks like using cement board but it's heavy and requires a waterproofing membrane over it. Another advantage is that the polyisocyanurate core of foam boards is waterproof. Anyone who has done more than 1 shower shouldn't start without knowing that. First, its super lightweight compared with the rest. How to follow the signal when reading the schematic? I think I'll try using the thinned mixture of Redgard and then try the Kerdi membrane again. Since my guys and I will be doing this for the first time next week, I 'd like to take advantage of your 'learning curve.' Personally, I like standard drywall. ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. The main issue caused by non-waterproof cement boards is the eventual warping and damage to the tiles, making it difficult and costly to fix without removing all the tile and starting over. Once you have determined the type of thinset, its important to also consider the weather conditions during installation. Additionally, a liquid water-resistant membrane should be applied over all surface areas before installation. @JimmyFix-it - hardiboard is not really porous unless it is completely saturated. Slap it up comb it out, leave every ridge tall and perfect. Step 2: Determine the room's center. Also - use a good thinset. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. If your going to do the job do it right, and give professional advice pls. Even the tiling subs have moved away from mortar walls because of the labor cost and lack of craftsmen in the industry.
Like cement board, the boards are heavy and hard to cut. Cement board is a bit better, but you need to spray either one before applying the mortar so that it doesn't "skin over" before you can get the Kerdi up. By the time you switch from the RG application to the Kerdi installation, it should be dry. Overall, waterproofing behind and around shower tile is a critical part of any installation to ensure that the area is adequately protected from water and moisture damage. If you can paint a wall, you can use RedGard. KERDI was developed as a waterproofing membrane to be used in . Kerdi does admit that you can use cement board. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. Installing cement board involves placing the boards atop a layer of thinset adhesive, a process known as bedding. With Wedi products, the compound curves are easy to produce quickly. You'll know the RG is dry when it turns reallllly dark bright red as opposed to the pinkish color when applied. With Kerdi Board you get to enjoy an effective product that is lightweight, easy to cut, waterproof, and leaves behind no dust! Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. If any is found, wait a few more hours and then re-inspect. Once you have selected the right sealer, follow the manufacturers instructions and apply a generous, even coat over the entire surface of the Hardie board. I've never had a failure. As a contractor, I have been using Kerdi since it came out. Hi David. Will be doing a bathroom gut and will be laying durock cement board over plywood sub floor. To get the most protection from the cement board, it should be installed in a way that ensures it is waterproof, in addition to being secured properly with the right adhesive and screws. Problem with very thick cement board/ tile/bullnose edge, Steam Shower Slip Joint Detail - The secret is in the boarding stage. This will help protect the cement board from water damage, and is often a specific type of coating designed for use with cement boards. An additional layer of sealant can also be applied on the seams for extra protection and water resistance. We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. Yup! Cement board (cbu) is not waterproof, but is not damaged by being wet. I have watched it done 10-15 times, have good skills, and if I tried to make large mortar walls myself it might like a little kid threw up concrete Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? If installing large format tiles (over 15"), be sure to give the Aquadefense at least 8 hours to cure first. In jobsite conditions and over a long time, who knows. More waste, yes, but I think you have to have a LOT of practice to hang those huge sheets like mongo does. Cement board is a good, reliable backer board that works well on both floors and walls. What precautions should I take installing tile on a backerboard in an area surrounded by cement? Porcelain and ceramic tiles are stiff and hard materials, so if they are installed on an unlevel or bouncy surface they are highly susceptible to cracking. I simply sponge off the excess. Regardless, cement board is a great, trusted tile substrate that will work well on both walls and floors. Actually if you watch any pros work (not on crappy shows) on TV you will see them use backer board 99% of the time. tripadvisor car rental tampa airport xnxx big tits; roommate questionnaire google form shadow of the dragon queen deluxe; cities where home prices are rising 2022 beachbody bodi block; mahogany tree seeds uses I can take a bit of it off the wall and roll it into a ball. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Find the website that's made specifically for you. What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? And by 'booking the Kerdi' I mean we put it in the bathtub, sprayed it with the handshower, then booked it (just like wallpaper). The core isnt waterproof, but it can withstand getting wet without falling apart, so even if your waterproofing system leaks, the board will stay intact. We store towels, medicine, toiletry supplies, first-aid gear, massage devices, facial steamers, spare Painting your garage is a great way to improve the look of the space and make the walls easier to clean. The fastest method [for me and possibly other dilettants] is to stroke the knife at a diagonal to the comb marks, top down, center out, pushing all the air before you with short, overlapping strokes.-Thinset needs to be pretty darn wet: Needs to stay put when combed, but should be soft and shiney. Dean, our tile consultant, says glass mat backer board is his first choice due to the ease of installation, cost, and because his workers like it. Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. Keep in mind that most tile setters err on the side of caution and brush a waterproofing membrane on top of cement board when it is in wet areas like showers or tub surrounds. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. I guess that why it was so frustrating that cement board is just sooo thirsty. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. Manufactured by Schluter Systems, Kerdi Board is a multifunctional tile underlayment and construction panel, that can also be implemented for forming bonded waterproof assemblies with tile coverings. Needless to say, the drywall turned to mush. The thin-set mortar should be mixed to a fairly dry consistency and then spread on the surface with a 1/4 inch square notch trowel. Project Type: Tile / Category: Bathroom. rev2023.3.3.43278. Here's how to get it right the first time, If you've got a steady hand, a few easy-to-find supplies and patience, you can install a tile backsplash in a kitchen or bathroom, Step 4 in swapping your tub for a sleek new shower: Pick your waterproofing materials and drain, and don't forget to test, Work with your contractors and installers to ensure a safe, stylish curb that keeps the water where it belongs, Get the benefits of a time-honored ritual without firing up the coals, thanks to easier-than-ever home steam systems, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, Out With the Old Tile: 8 Steps to Prep for Demolition, Convert Your Tub Space Into a Shower Waterproofing and Drainage, Steam Showers Bring a Beloved Spa Feature Home. It worked well - just like wallpapering. If you want a cement board, use Durock or Wonderboard. They are designed to provide a waterproof, vapor-tight layer to the substrate, which in this case would be the cement board. Cement board is a heavy mess compared to drywall, and drywall is a heavy mess compared to Kerdi Board. This feature makes building the base structure much easier and more cost . Seems like I've been using the full measure of water the bag calls for, plus about 10%.-50 lbs of thinset at a time is too much for an amatuer. ), Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Finite abelian groups with fewer automorphisms than a subgroup. What do you mean it doesn't adhere? It is a topical waterproofing layer that is put over the substrate to keep water from getting to the wood frame and nails. Start by cleaning the cement board with a mineral oil soap; this will help reduce mold and mildew growth throughout the life of the shower. There are many different types of underlayment to choose from, but they all serve the same purpose. While cement board and grout are not waterproof, Kerdi is and can even be directly installed over drywall. DIYers on this forum seem to have nothing but problems with Hardi. Schluter approves their waterproof Kerdi membrane over drywall. . True cement board (Durck, Wonderboard) is my first choice as a tile or Kerdi backer. Most of the entries in the NAME column of the output from lsof +D /tmp do not begin with /tmp. Do you have any pictures? I think it is engrained in me to do that so I forget to mention it. But a mortar bed does have advantages. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. You still use metal lath, but then mix bags of powder and pour the soupy mix onto the floor. I agree that gypsum seems very questionable anywhere in the wet areas of a shower. Once the primer is completely dry, use a roller or brush to apply a coat of your chosen KERDI membrane adhesive over the entire surface of the wall, overlapping the edges slightly for full coverage. Why do you think each board should be able to move at all let alone independently? Ditra is manufactured in a 3'3 width and comes in various roll lengths (54sf, 150sf, and 323 sf). It allows you to easily and quickly create tile-ready elements in bathtub surrounds and platforms, vanities, showers, shelving, and much more. Good luck with your project. Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar must be used to construct all KERDI seams to ensure watertightperformance of the system. Using self-leveling underlayment takes careful prep work. Everyone knows brick and stucco, but what about fiber cement and metal? Self-leveling underlayment has many of the same advantages as a dry-pack mortar bed but doesnt require as much skill to install. In general, the Schlter system is typically more expensive than a cement board, and some people may find this an attractive option for its long lasting, easy to maintain qualities. What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? Once the adhesive has been applied and has had time to properly cure, then the KERDI membrane can be applied to the wall. You troweled on thinset combing it out then pressed the Kerdi into place? To waterproof Hardie board, you should choose a quality sealer that is designed for use on cement-based sidings. We use a pump action garden sprayer and its usually dry by the time we clean the sprayer. It looks like you have Kerdi installed on the floor and not Kerdi Board. Why you use cement board? Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Ideally the DalSeal TS would fold into the gap between the wall and ceiling concrete board. Gettin' a little delirious. When applying Kerdi membrane to cement board, the edges and seams of the membrane must be lapped, meaning that each layer should overlap the portion underneath it by a minimum of two inches. x 33 ft. Waterproofing Membrane: Kerdi-Board 1/2 in. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? Do I have to use Kerdi tape with Ditra membrane? Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? ! For indoor projects and gypsum board, thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is ideal. Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. craft paper or plastic is great if the inspector wants it but it is (should be) doing nothing for a tub surround that has HB/redgard/thinset/tile. is that because water doesn't really hit that area?" - Lisa Jasper That's pushing it but should be fine. If he did the framing for the shower, then in order to measure for it correctly, he would need to know how thick the tile is so that he can avoid exactly this problem. x 96 in. Kerdi can be installed first on drywall or cement board. We want that inside corner able to move. It is easier to cut than cement board, it is mold resistant, and it has a built-in moisture barrier. I don't want to use the Ditra membrane product but rather tiles directly over the cement boards. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. Additionally, you can use KERDI-BAND around corners, seams, and joints to help with a waterproof installation. Think about movement. Houzz Pro: One simple solution for contractors and design pros, surfer thanked Avanti Tile & Stone / Stonetech. Their lighter weight makes moving panels around during installation a cinch, which is a far cry from the heft of conventional cement board. That would tell him where the edge of the framing needs to be. En cliquant sur Accepter , j'accepte l'utilisation des cookies telle qu'elle est dcrite plus en dtail dans la Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. How should I transition between cement board floor and alcove tub? Additionally, the drywall should be primed with a latex primer before applying the Kerdi membrane. We just went through a learning curve on the Kerdi and Hardi. Kerdi Board panels have a number of other advantages: they can be cut to size using an ordinary utility knife, can be glued or screwed into place, and are very lightweight. Significantly more time and effort is required to ensure a quality bond when using a modified thinset adhesive with KERDI, and for this reason, it is usually not recommended. Redgard is a similar product. if you go with vapour barrier, then cement board. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? So long as the seams and joint areas are properly prepared, the panels can also provide waterproofing. To put things into perspective, consider that a tile floor is made up of three layers: the subfloor, the underlayment, and the tile surface you walk on. Following these steps will help ensure that your shower space is properly sealed, and thus that the cement board is well protected from moisture. This thread is 9 years old and it's the Hardi board that's thirsty not the Kerdi. And for a more secure fit, you can also use screws. Make sure the floor is level in the shower. Applying a conventional cement backer board to such a structure is almost impossible. This is confusing since Kerdi Board has no Kerdi on it. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer) as we strive to provide site experiences for browsers that support new web standards and security practices. It is important to waterproof Hardie board to make it more water-resistant, as well as to protect the materials from the elements. that's home depot homeowner installation method. Additionally, all thin-set mortars should be suitable for use in wet or feature depths of up to 1/8 inch. It looks like Kerdi membrane is ~$2/sqft ($200 for a 108sqft roll) and kerdi board is $3.7/sqft ($115 for a 4x8 sheet (Lowes)). ".1) is is okay to use kerdi board instead of ditra on the floor? Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology. It also features fleece webbing that allows for effective anchoring into thin-set mortar. Will use the Schluter Shower system. My idea is to block in and install the tub in the existing corner, erect the new wet wall, and use hardi-backer to shim the wall out over the tub flange, then apply kerdi over the whole thing.Does kerdi take offense at being installed over hardi? LONDON. There is no cutting or fitting of boards, and a mortar bed is good for leveling and flattening uneven or out-of-level floors, which are common in old houses. Kerdi membrane prevents water damage and mold development. This creates a strong, waterproof tile backer that also functions as an uncoupling membrane. Both may be effective substrates, but Kerdi Board boasts significant advantages. Send us an email: , What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter, Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp. the cost of the tile job. There is definitely skill & planning required to doit right. It is important to seal any imperfections in the drywall to ensure a long-lasting installation and to minimize water infiltration. Prime first to create a flat, uniform surface that is free of dust, grease and other debris. Both may be effective substrates, but Kerdi Board boasts significant advantages. We recommend our users to update the browser. The cement board can also become weakened and start to flake away when it absorbs moisture, causing ugly spots and patches to start appearing on the wall. I hang Kerdi on cement board and fibercement board all the time. Yes, Hardie board needs to be waterproofed. I want to mount a cast iron bathtub, but not pull down my 1905 plaster and lath. Yes, you need waterproofing behind shower tile. The Kerdi/Daltile TS underlayments do have some valid applications such as in steam shower installations where a bullet proof vapor barrier is required. To properly seal a cement board for a shower, its important to first properly prepare the surface. It is a fast process that is hard to mess up if you do it right. Cementboard sufficient to a tub surround is dirt cheap .vs. #3 This is a DIY site. It's a lightweight polystyrene board faced with Kerdi that comes in various thicknesses that you can use in place of drywall or cement board. Well, I'm going to give you three different ways to seal the backer board at the tub flange. WATCH HERE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TRLd2HYhbU&list=PLO47JMsdYGrkxM_ZkOc3lMnsVhTqj80bB#justdoityourself #lovingit #p. Cement board is known to be very heavy and somewhat difficult to cut. When I tried putting up the first sheets, which were only 36" x 39", and even though I had SOAKED the hardi, to the point water was pooling on the floor, the thinset was already drying before I got the Kerdi up, and I couldn't get it to adhere properly no matter how hard I tried. Its important to note that Kerdi membrane is not a structural base layer, so plywood should be installed and reinforced as necessary based on load requirements. Anytime Mongo. 1. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. You probably have to go to a big box store's special order desk or find a specialty tile supplier to find it. On a vertical surface, very little moisture . The main types of cement board you could encounter are Fibre Reinforced Cement (FRC) board and gypsum board. Being a Los Angeles resident, Jessica spends a lot of her time looking for her next DIY project and sharing her love for home design. Kerdi 3 ft. 3 in. x 5-ft. and 3 x 5-ft. sheets of cement board are sized for efficient use around bathtubs and showers. When installed, Kerdi Board creates a substrate that is level, flat, square, plumb, and dimensionally stable. For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. 3. Ditra is a 1/8-inch thick polyethylene membrane with a layer of anchoring fleece on the underside and a grid of square cavities on top. Kerdi can even be installed over drywall. Kerdi membrane is a waterproofing material that is designed to be used in wet areas such as bathrooms and showers before tiles are installed. Installation. I posted a plea for help and Mongo and Bill both gave me good advice. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. Schulter Ditra is manufactured by Schluter Systems and is a 1/8 thick polyethylene uncoupling membrane that is specifically designed for tile installations. Not even the plumber's fault as it was just a bad valve. We were using a 3/16 x 5/32 trowel, probably to small. ", Signed,Never Hung Kerdi A Day In Her Life. . Sure, you can do it.just be sure to "spritz" or wet the hardi thoroughly before.it's pretty "thirsty.". Thanks to all for the feedback. I've seen preferences regarding HardieBacker and the cement board products such as Wonder Board. While cement board is a reliable tile underlayment, it isnt completely waterproof only water-resistant. The gridlines printed on the surface are beneficial for the installation process, also allowing for quick, neat cuts with a utility knife. Seams and joints should also be waterproofed and caulked to prevent water from seeping through. Yeah it seems that the only products that will be compatible with cement board and the kerdi membrane are bostik ditra-set and schluter all-set (or one of schluters other products). With that said, the key benefits of Kerdi Board include: While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. Here are the fundamentals of tile installation over cement board. To line niche shelves, for instance. I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls. I just a few weeks ago put kerdi on top of hardi-board in my shower and it was PAINFUL! Waterproofing is an important aspect of any bathroom or wet-area installation. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. You can apply it on PVC, metal, slabs, walls, and floors. Can be cut to size easily using a utility knife. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Depending on factors such as room temperature, humidity, and ventilation in the area, this could take anywhere from 1 to 3 days. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_27',168,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0');if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_28',168,'0','1'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0_1');.narrow-sky-1-multi-168{border:none!important;display:block!important;float:none!important;line-height:0;margin-bottom:15px!important;margin-left:auto!important;margin-right:auto!important;margin-top:15px!important;max-width:100%!important;min-height:250px;min-width:250px;padding:0;text-align:center!important}Waterproofing should also be done on other areas in the shower as well such as the corners, window sills and other areas where water can easily accumulate. I'm thirsty. This is the traditional tile backer. Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4HjHT6_cUo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEt6irjJCI0, My master suite addition & full bath to 1/2 bath renovation. Thanks Paul! But I did want to understand the cost breakdown as the walls then become WAY more expensive than it would be with Redguard. I would get someone else. "thanks in advance :-) I know so little about this stuff, but when I watch videos (made by schluter-kerdi) everything looks so tidy and perfect - maybe that's not realistic'''" - Lisa Jasper It should look better than that and it's hard to tell but the wall stud spacing looks extreme and more than 16" I could not see if the screw heads where covered in the photos and in the one picture you can see that the screw and washer fitting where not covered. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese. When installation is done properly, Kerdi membrane offers a waterproof barrier that can protect the plywood below from moisture. It installs with screws, then you tape the joints & screw holes and install your tile. Needed to interject a little "amateur humor. There is a product called Kerdiboard you might want to look into. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top . Take care to cut the KERDI membrane to the appropriate size and apply it to the wall, ensuring that it is properly adhered and that the edges are sealed with KERDI sealant. Yes, it is recommended to waterproof cement board, especially if it is going to be used in exterior settings or in places where it will be in contact with water. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Any competent tile contractor would float the wall in mortar giving you a stronger, level, perfectly flat, and square surface to properly install tile. Cross your fingers and hope it's all OK. Not the best Kerdi Showcase. Hello D Zak! Finally, it is important to remember that any thin-set that has been exposed to moisture must be replaced. However, if installed on drywall, it only protects one side. We waterproof the outside the hardiboard in 99% of the install with something like redgard. On the other hand, a Schlter system offers improved thermal insulation, which can help to reduce heating costs. rev2023.3.3.43278. Additionally, seal the space around any pipes and fixtures that can be found in the shower. We don't expect people to master this and in fact I know maybe two guys in my area (live in big city) that could do this. Once all that is completed and the Aquadefense has dried, you can install your tile with a polymer modified mortar meeting the ANSI requirements of A118.4 or A118.11. Cement board is the most common and widely-known backer board. Furthermore, if you're working in an older home KERDI-BOARD fits better than cement board in odd spaces. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? vegan) just to try it, does this inconvenience the caterers and staff?
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